Welcome to the 50th episode and the seventh season of Latinx Intelligentsia! Oh my gosh. I am just so excited to celebrate with y’all! 50 episodes filled with mucho, mucho amor and joy, and hardship, and perseverance and laughter. Being at this point in my journey as a podcaster is really amazing. It’s such an honor to work on these episodes and offer cuentos from Latinx, Latina, Latino students and scholars, practitioners, and policymakers.
Here’s a very special episode hosted by future Dra. Nancy Camarillo, a doctoral candidate at the University of Maryland College Park. Go Terps! I have the honor of serving as Nancy’s chair and I asked her if she would be willing to host and talk with me about the podcast. And we have a tendency to laugh a lot during our advising meetings, and I thought she would bring her special ray of sunshine to the episode.
Gracias, Nancy!
Read the Full Transcript
Here’s the transcript from our conversation. To cite please use the following:
Espino, M. M. (Host). (2023, January 23). Celebrating the 50th episode with future Dra. Nancy Camarillo (Episode 50). [Audio podcast episode]. In Latinx Intelligentsia. https://latinxintelligentsia.libsyn.com
Nancy: Welcome everyone. My name is Nancy Camarillo, she/ her/ ella pronouns. I am a fourth year doctoral candidate at the University of Maryland College Park. I get to work with the illustrious Dra. Michelle Espino Lira as my Chair or soon to be chair once I get this proposal defended.
I have had the wonderful ask to join Dra. Espino Lira in the celebratory 50th episode for the podcast. And so today I get to ask all the questions and hopefully, you all get a sense of not just what the podcast has meant throughout the last 50 episodes, but really getting a sense of what the podcast has meant both professionally as well as the impact that we hope to have in the field, specifically for Latinx/a/o higher ed community uplift.
Has the Journey in Podcasting Been What You Imagined?[08:00]
Nancy: In season one, episode one [Cultivating the Uplift], you shared with the listeners the impetus for creating a podcast that centered the uplift of Latinx communities in higher education. Has the journey been what you had imagined?
Michelle: Oh my gosh. It’s not what I thought it would be. I had all these ideas of that first episode, and I really loved it because there was a sense of inserting myself into the podcast in a way that, has shifted a lot in the podcast where I’m more focused on illuminating others. It’s just really interesting to hear my story told and then also, I noticed that explaining the relationship that I had to the people of why I chose them as my guests. I thought that was intriguing. There were just elements there like La Profesora Sidenote was not yet fully evolved. When I interviewed our Poet in Residence. I don’t know how I decided to add the -in Resistencia. It’s actually been more than what I could ever have ever hoped for. I can’t believe it’s already 50 episodes because, I didn’t really know where I was going with it. I just knew I was called to do it. It’s just gonna happen. It’s been interesting because this is the feedback I’ve received, is some folks thought, “Oh, this is gonna be a total critique of higher ed” and I think it’s more about showcasing folks.
Where are we creating these counter spaces in higher ed?
How are we thriving in higher ed?
It’s still gonna offer the critique, but I’m not gonna spend all my time in the critique. and I’ve realized like, that’s not even my personality. I feel like it’s more about saying, “Wow, you did this!” or “Wow! you made this journey. What was that like? How did it evolve?” And helping people gain inspiration in a way that, I don’t think I really understood that’s what I was doing.
Nancy: That’s powerful. As a listener, what I’ve appreciated is, so much diversity of experiences that you’ve brought in that highlights different forms of experiences as truth as, important. To hear you say that while, yes, the critique piece is there, it rings true to what I, as a listener hear when I see the new episode drop.
Michelle: Oh, that’s good. I looked back to see which episodes were the most downloaded And they range all over the place. It’s interesting because even if you wanted to be guided by the number of downloads per episode, like, health and wellbeing, the tenure track experience [Ep 4 Nuestra Vida on the Tenure Track]. Obviously I think that one, is a really good one cuz I had both already tenured or getting ready and people in their first year, which I would love to go and revisit again. But critical quant ended up being a highly downloaded one. So it isn’t just one kind of topic. People are interested in a range of things, which is really good cuz I really wanna diversify the topics that we have, the communities that we’re showcasing, so that has been really vital.
An Episode that had a Profound Impact on Your Life [11:00]
Nancy: Is there an episode or there may be more than one episode that has had a profound impact on your personal, professional life and/or your scholarship?
Michelle: So the one that resonates so much with me is the “Weaving the Personal with the Work“, which was episode six. What I loved about it was because it wasn’t just like scholarly stuff, like it was actually things that were important that I feel like sometimes we have no other outlet, like there’s no other outlet to showcase our work. And so to hear Rebeca Burciaga talk about working the loom and how she spent her sabbatical learning about weaving and that artistry I just felt like that’s so beautiful.
How can we continue to showcase our art?
How do we stay creative in the midst of trying to publish and get the work out?
And obviously some scholars that’s what they focus on, but not all of us do. Or to hear Enrique Alemán talk about this gift that he gave because he was trying to understand his mom, by creating this documentary. Like that to me is just so touching and very powerful. So that reminds me that we need to create these outside spaces. We cannot just be in academia all the time. But the other thing is there are ways in which to do the work that we’re meant to do in academia, but in a creative way.
There are also some episodes that had a profound effect on how I thought about the podcast and, mistakes I made. I have made a few mistakes on the podcast and folks have showed a lot of grace and offered some teachable moments for me that, although really difficult to go through, were really vital for me to think through about what’s my intention with the episodes that I’m doing? And so am I fully vetting ideas, or am I thinking through particular concepts? So it’s been interesting to figure out like, how can I learn about this but then also have an intelligent conversation with somebody? That also has been tough, but I think really helpful for me to think through like, okay, when I’m addressing these topics or isn’t just within my circle, or how can I expand my network to gather folks who I don’t know, but we can still have a great conversation.
Nancy: Thank you. I appreciate the moments where, cause I engage the podcast on Twitter, as well as listening. As a listener and an audience member to see when things have been brought up how you’ve addressed them. And to see the impact of the podcast, not just on your scholarship and your expertise, but also just managing the humanistic piece that we’re on this journey together and learning through. So thank you for sharing that.
What Can the Community Gain from Latinx Intelligentsia? [14:00]
Nancy: What do you hope that the community takes away from the podcast as listeners and individuals who engage in the content?
Michelle: Certainly inspiration. I don’t often receive a lot of feedback , unless it’s like a critique about something. I have no idea how people feel about these different episodes or, what it’s meant. But sometimes people will send me messages and it’ll say like, “There’s always something new that I can learn”, or “I had never thought about this.” I always love starting with what someone’s journey is because that helps someone say, “I experienced this”, or, “This happened to me too”, or “I didn’t know that this happened. I’m gonna be prepared”. All of these are … guides for validation and for affirmation, but then also to challenge folks to be like, “I had never thought about this”, or, ” Wow, I don’t know if I agree with this stance that this person is taking on these things”.
And I really leave it up to the listener to determine that what I’m trying to present is this person’s pathway and whether you agree with it or not, it’s out there. And so how do we talk about it? How do we talk about what that experience is like? And where these ideas come from. So I think that’s an important part of this. But ideally it’s like for people to say, “Wow, there’s someone else out there who’s having a similar experience or is doing something that, wow, I love this topic! I wanna learn more about it.” There’s something about that that’s really critical.
How are Podcasts a Valuable form of Public Scholarship? [15:00]
Nancy: You mentioned that this is a place for community and people to share. And I also think it has brought to the surface the idea of media being a form of scholarship. As the person who is putting the content together and, seeking out topics and guests, what has been your experience in legitimizing this podcast or just the role of podcasts as valuable forms of scholarship in academia?
Michelle: So it is interesting because that was not my intention. I was like, uh, I don’t want anyone to like at [the University of] Maryland… if they know I’ve got a podcast, great! I didn’t think about it as public scholarship until I had people say, “Hey, This is public scholarship”. And I was like, what?!
I’ve been doing a lot of reflection. I’ve been in this career for a while now, and what is it that I’m about? Where am I now? What am I doing? And the podcast was one avenue of really exploring what is this work supposed to be about for me now as I hopefully venture into full professorship?
I don’t think anyone can deny the fact that all of my work has been somehow about community. That is a value that is woven in throughout all that I do. And so why wouldn’t my podcast be exactly about our community of Latinx, Latina, Latino people in higher ed, and it touches upon my research. So it actually folds in very nicely. And I had to have people point it out to me that this is actually, a vehicle that can be used to showcase other people’s work, to talk about critical issues, to address pathways, to talk about that knowledge–those valued forms of capital that we don’t always have access to. This is an opportunity. And so I just have never felt like I have to defend what this is about because I don’t feel the need to try to legitimize myself with the podcast. Who I am more concerned about is my own community. Is this something that is helpful for them? And once it stops being helpful, then I need to figure out what happens to the podcast.
What’s been interesting is there has been an increase in podcasts and when I first started, people were like, “what are podcasts?” There were very few academic podcasts available out there, and so now there’s a few more and there’s some really awesome podcasts that are coming out and I try to listen to all of them because there’s something insightful to get from it. What I’m trying to do is…
I’m trying to showcase other people’s work.
That way we can cite each other.
That way we can support each other, and get more people in higher ed to be successful in whatever way they wanna be.
What Excites You about the Future of the Field of Student Affairs/Higher Education? [19:00]
Nancy: Based on the platicas that you’ve had with up and coming and established scholars and practitioners, what excites you about the future of the field?
Michelle: Oh my gosh. I feel like our field is in for a huge change. I feel it with the students I teach, they’re so well-read; really able to delve into very challenging topics regarding social justice issues, anti-Blackness, Black liberation, I just marvel at this generation who is much more savvy about this early on and part of this is because their lived experience has helped to inform so much of it.
And I do think that hopefully, they’re seeing there’s another way to do higher ed. There’s something really beautiful to watch as they work in collaboration with each other and they do things that I feel like wasn’t always as apparent when I was going through my doctoral program and my early years as a faculty member.
The concern that I have is that there’s a lot of performativity that is also happening. What’s the intent here? We have some scholars and some who have been featured on the podcast who are very honest about, “Here are my successes and here are times where I have not done well”. I love to see that, and in particularly in social media, to watch folks be very transparent about that. And there’s something very beautiful and really difficult about putting it out there. But we also have folks who are like, “I’ve written 50 articles”, and it’s like, why are we continuing? I thought we were trying to break this whole notion of in order to get a faculty job now…. We often talk about this, had I been looking for a job right now, coming out of a doctoral program, I don’t know if I would’ve gotten a faculty job because of the level of expectation. I’m really concerned about doctoral students who, I don’t know where this pressure is coming of, like, I have to turn out 10 manuscripts before I even graduate in order to even be considered. Why are we as hiring authorities doing that? Are we projecting that? Are people being mentored that way? What is happening?
There’s some wonderful things to think about like, how am I balancing my life?
Academia is so much part of my identity but it shouldn’t be my whole identity. I do love the fact that there’s another generation who’s like…
Nancy: Breaking the mold. Yeah.
How Does La Profesora Balance it All? [21:00]
Nancy: Doctora, you do it all. Yes, you do it all. So as you think about how you manage multiple responsibilities…. For those who don’t know, La Doctora sits on many dissertation committees, not just at [the University of] Maryland, the program director for our concentration at [the University of] Maryland, sitting on editorial boards, and the teaching. So like how do you balance it all? As you think about, then you bring in this podcast into the mix.
Michelle: I don’t. I feel like I’m doing too much and I don’t always feel like I’m being effective in any of it. It’s challenging because it’s not just oh, what am I doing in my professional work, but, I’m someone’s partner who is also running for Congress and I’m working on his campaign. I’m helping to organize things, and being supportive. I’m a daughter and I’m helping my nephew finish his master’s program and I’m trying to keep a house going. And I have Dezi Dog who, she’s just lovable, I just have to walk her and feed her. But none of that is my research. I have been thinking a lot about that. Because the podcast is my passion project.
It brings me joy.
It’s hard to do and I love it.
I love it.
And so how do I make time for that while also not trying to get in the way of a student’s success? How do I have tough conversations sometimes with students about,”you’re not ready to do this proposal” or, “you’re not ready to defend yet”?
I’m not trying to be a barrier…. Or as a coordinator, I don’t just want to keep our program the way it’s been. There’s things that I have experienced and noticed prior to taking on this coordination role that I was like, we have to fix this, but that takes time and energy.
And I wish I was someone who could just go with the flow and say, “I’m just coordinating” and not do the things but that is not who I am. I’m not gonna apologize for the values that I have. My values are always gonna be about centering students.
My values is always gonna be about community. Yeah, that means that my road is a little bit more challenging because that is what I center. But, I wouldn’t be able to look at myself in the mirror and say you’re doing everything that you can to make a system better for generations of students or whatever.
And I do think yeah, how am I gonna fit my research into this? And every semester I come up with a new plan for time management. There’s always something new that I can take on. I’m tracking how I’m spending my time, and trying to figure out where am I really spending all of my time and how can I be more efficient in some ways? In other words, I’m just doing the best I can.
What are 3 Things that You Don’t Know about La Profesora? [25:00]
Nancy: So what are three things that your listeners may not know about you?
Michelle: Some listeners know that in my first year as a faculty member, I was diagnosed with breast cancer. I was at Emory University Hospital in Atlanta, and I saw this brochure from Dragon Boat Atlanta. It was this dragon boat team for breast cancer survivors. Dragon Boat is a long canoe. It seats 20 people and you sit side by side in a pair and you paddle to the beat of a drum and the drummer sits at the front and it’s in the shape of a dragon. And, it’s a beautiful sport.
I fell in love with it. When I took up this brochure, I said, when I get better, I’m gonna go and try this out. And so I actually went to Lake Lanier where they have practice for the Steel Magnolias, and they were all breast cancer survivors.
But this doctor had figured out that you have so much trauma in your body, if you build up your core and stretch out your muscles through the process of paddling and then you’re in fellowship with other survivors to really get out there and be fit. So fitness and fun and friendship. When I moved to DC I joined GoPink DC. I love being out in the water. I love paddling and every four years they do this International Dragon Boat Festival, just for breast cancer survivors. And so the last time it was in Florence [Italy], and my husband and I were able to go and there were 400 teams from across the world. I think I got a pin from every single team like South Africa, Australia, Brazil, China. It was so amazing. So I’m a Dragon boat racer. Love it.
The other thing about me is that when I went to Ohio for grad school, my parents let me use their car. When I got my job in Dallas, my dad was like, you’re a professional now. You probably need a new car. And I was like, I want a truck. And when I drove back for Christmas, I got the truck and the Moose has been with me since then.
Nancy: That is awesome because I remember I saw you in one of the UMD parking lots with a truck, and I told, one of my cohort mates, “Dr. E drives a truck which is awesome!” But now to know that this is not just a truck, but the truck that has been with you for a very long time makes that even better.
Michelle: It’s like my entire professional career that truck has been with me. I named him after Moose Johnston, number 48 of the Dallas Cowboys, who’s my favorite Cowboy. Some people will buy a car in five years. I have not bought one in like…
Nancy: A very long time.
Michelle: Decades. And thank God, knock on wood, my troquita it works for me. And then a third thing. It’s a just a sweet thing. When I got married, I wore my Abuelita’s shoes that she wore at her wedding in the 1920s.
Nancy: Oh my gosh.
Michelle: Yeah. I wore her shoes.
Nancy: Oh, makes my heart happy. Oof.
Michelle: Yeah.
What are some Upcoming Topics for the Season 7? [27:00]
Nancy: I have one last heavy hitter question for you. what are some upcoming topics or topics of interest that we may see on the next season?
Michelle: Something that I’m really interested in is figuring out how to showcase more books. what I’m thinking about doing is having someone who has read the book, collaborate with me on interviewing the author. So if there are academic books that you have read that you really wanna talk to the author about.
I’d really would like to showcase more undergrads.
I’ve been wanting to do one on department chairs.
I’ve been wanting to do one about, how do you establish an advising relationship? I think that’s really important.
Methodologies, participatory action research is something I’m hearing a lot of people interested in. Plática is another one.
We always welcome ideas, and I’ve had a few people who have nominated folks, and so I really wanna honor their nomination and make sure I get them on the show too.
Nancy: Yeah. That’s awesome. are there any shout outs that you’d like to give?
Michelle: I would definitely like, shout out my sister scholars, Judy Marquez Kiyama, Liliana Garces, and Susana Muñoz. They were with me since the very beginning and just endured, all my wacky ideas. They’ve always been so supportive of me and so just really appreciate them.
I’m so honored to have so many Latina doctoral students. Wow, like, I get to be a part of getting more of us to earn these degrees. And I just learned so much. It’s just so cool. Learned something new from everybody who I get to advise.
Of course, my partner John Lira, we met at the right time when I was established, he was established and it was like, how can we support one another? how wonderful to be able to grow together.
Of course, my parents and my family, my nephew, Matthew, and my niece Genevieve, and my sister Valerie. I’m grateful for them and their love and support for sure.
And of course, shout out to my amazing colleagues at the University of Maryland.
I’m very fortunate to be in a program that has five women of color who are just doing it all the time. All of us come from very different worlds and different perspectives, but, I just learn a lot and gain so much from them. So I’m really glad I have such good colleagues.
Thank you so much for the opportunity, Nancy. I really appreciate you.
Nancy: Of course. Thank you for asking. This has been really great.
Michelle: Awesome.
[end 30:00]
